posted 12-29-2000 10:34 PM            

I think that they are indeed obliged to give us more stuff.

I would even go so far as to say that they should even start shipping out programmers with each copy of TRC to make the levels for us.

posted 12-29-2000 11:03 PM            

If there were to include a programmer in the box - to do the levels for me - I wouldn't have to put much effort into it at all.

Aside from may be an occasional crack of the whip.

posted 12-29-2000 11:33 PM            

You almost made full "Member" in the process to boot.

Besides, I am fully aware that the physics alone, of getting the guy into the box would be ludicrous. I mean, he would need to have some sort of food and supplies for the possibility of sitting on the store shelf. And I'm not made of stone.

posted 12-30-2000 09:20 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by pwhirl:
Why does every one think Eidos should give us wad and texture editors. We should feel lucky that they even gave us the level editor in the first place. Give them time to come out with new stuff, they already got Angkor Wat. Remeber they aren't obliged to make the stuff so enjoy what we have. They're a good company and I'm sure pleasing the customer is a priority.

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We have had to wait nearly FIVE years for the release of this editor, so excuse us for expecting something a little more substantial to work with. If Core was really dedicated to pleasing the customer, they would have released this editor LONG ago, with a full selection of WADs.

posted 12-30-2000 09:47 AM            

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Originally posted by MrEDude:
And they didn't "give" us the level editor, they SOLD it to us (or was I the only one who noticed the ridiculously high price of Chronicles?).

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Here in the Netherlands Chronicles had the same price as all TR-games had when they had just been released, so you probably got ripped off if you had to pay more...

posted 12-30-2000 10:29 AM            

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Originally posted by MrEDude:
Chronicles was a LOT shorter than the other TR games, and yet it was priced the same.

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True, but I don't know if you've noticed it, but it was also quite a bit more difficult to put together. And as for a LOT shorter? Well, I can remember TR1 and TR2 which were just a bunch of textures, the basics of the current engine, and fairly simplistic levels. It doesn't really take very long to complete those games either, yet you still payed the same for them as you did for Last Revelation for example.

Actually, come to think of it, practically all TR games were fairly simple to complete... still, I don't recall if it was you I gave this comparison to, but if you'd eat a proper meal in a good restaurant you get three, maybe four hours of enjoyment, and you've spent more than you would on a computer-game, so I really don't see what the money-issue has got to do with all this... games are fairly cheap nowadays.

posted 12-30-2000 11:21 AM            

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Originally posted by MrEDude:
I'm just saying that it was overpriced by TR standards. The price of a game is usually a good indication of the amount of gameplay included.

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That is complete rubbish, and if you've played any games at all the last couple of years you know it. How can you possibly compare the lastability of a game like Diablo II with that of Half Life for example? You simply cannot, as it is completely different for each gamer how long they'll be addicted to the same game... Tombraider is the same old stuff over and over again, but for some reason some people find it enjoyable to play each new TR-game (people like me), though it's always the same puzzles, the same action,... always the same... Price has nothing to do with this.

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The fact that Chronicles was priced the same as Last Revelation misled a lot of people into thinking that the game would be similar in length, while that is not the case.

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I think one is pretty daft if one would be 'misled' like this... What I also don't get is that you tend to complain a lot about this issue in this forum, while in the same amount of time that it has taken you to write all these messages complaining, you could have made at least thousands of pounds if you would have spent that time coding yourself. Apparently you find TR-Chronicles valuable enough to waste your valuable time with it, yet you keep complaining. Where is the logic behind this?

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I would not have bought the game if I had known that the game would be so short and the level editor so limited.

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If you failed to notice this: there are some example levels included with the editor that show you what you can build with it... If you find this too limiting, why not simply code your own alternative, make it open-source, and thus be able to use the tools you'd really LIKE to use?

Don't get me wrong: I would have preferred to have the ability to edit my own objects too, but it seems a bit out of order to me to complain about being ripped of when it comes to something as a computer-game, which is not only fairly cheap, but which is also just that: it's just a computer-game.

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Nowhere on the box does it state that the level editor is incompatible with the game that it is packaged with. How could Core leave out such an important fact?

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Incompatible with the game it is packaged with? Compatibility doesn't enter into this: the game is packaged with an in-house tool which was used to develop TR4-levels, and that's just that... If you're serious about making games, you should build your own; if you're buying something like TR-C, you should be glad you can even edit your own levels...

Best regards,
Striffelbuur.

posted 12-30-2000 11:57 AM            

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Originally posted by MrEDude:
The reason I complain is to let the people at Eidos know how disappointed I am with the Chronicles/Level Editor package, so that they will not try to release such sub-standard products in the future. Eidos does check in on these forums from time to time. It took a lot of complaining on the part of TR fans everywhere in order to get Core to even release a level editor. Apparently it will take a lot more in order to get more WADs.

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Well, I can't argue with that... I was already thinking of putting the environment I'm creating with the level-editor online when it's all finished except for the props, just so that I can be able to say:

"Look how extremely cool this is, and imagine how extremely cool it would be if I would be able to finish it!"

Hopefully the combined whine from the TR-community has some positive effect... Usually though, it doesn't... just take a look at George Lucas and the fans that made him rich and famous: he's unwilling to release the Star Wars trilogy on DVD just now, while there is still plenty of money to be milked out of the sale of old-fashioned video-tapes.

At least it's good to know what the motivation behind your continuous complaining is, for it explains a lot... I think the cry for a way to edit textures and objects in the WADs is bound to be a recurring topic anyway, so Eidos is bound to at least NOTICE what their customers would like to see the most.

posted 12-30-2000 01:51 PM            

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Originally posted by pwhirl:
Why is everyone so greedy!? First they didn't have to give us the thing, second Chronicles was no more expensive then the other TR games, and thirdly I'm getting tired of people thinking everyone owes everybody something. If you can give me a good reason as to why eidos has to give us more I'd like to here it.

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If you read between the lines you'd have noticed that we are really happy with what we've got, and that personally I think one can't really complain about a product if it's so reasonably priced... from what I understand MrEDude is only complaining to give off a signal to Eidos to let them know what their customers would like to see.

I'd be more than willing to give them some more of my cash if it would mean that I could also edit my own objects (still don't know which program the Core-guys use nowadays to create their objects... I happen to know one of the guys that made TR1, so I guess I'll have to ask him some day if he's still in touch with the people at Core)...

Greetz,
Striffelbuur

posted 12-30-2000 06:10 PM            

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Originally posted by MissLaraCroft:
Honestly, I don't know how you people can fight over a silly game. TR is the best game in the whole world!! And I think, if you bought TRC, and knew there was a TRLE disc in there, and, well, had no use for it...¬_¬ I'm not going to mention any names, but, the fact that you bought both discs, and wont even use one..(because your too lazy too *ahem!) then stop complaiing and just sell the bloody thing!! Instead of it collecting dust under your bed or something. And, on the other hand....I think if you are really a true TR fan....then you would at least make an effort to see what the TRLE is like, before you make statements and judge. Yes, it is a lot of work, but in the end, it'll most likely turn out the way you want it, and you'll be proud of it. Don't quit before you've even started....that's just pointless and silly!! TR is supposed to be fun, and well, you have to give Core credit for acually MAKING something like this for us fans. I mean, you don't see every one doing that for a game now-a-days. So, be thankful for what you have, and if your not going to take it for granted at least...then like I said before, SELL the bloody thing before it collects dust under your bed!! HaHa! Well, ta ta!!!

-Miss Lara Croft

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Yep, it's quite easy to sum up everything that's wrong with a product, but usually the people who complain are the ones that can't even code a decent product themselves...

Best regards,
Striffelbuur.

posted 12-30-2000 06:25 PM            

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Originally posted by MissLaraCroft:
Oh yeah!!! By the ay people....I have pics of me dressed as Lara ^_^ hehe, I can show them to you if you promise NOT to laugh, lol.....e-mail me for them, and yes...I know I changed the subject....buh bye!!

-Miss Lara Croft

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Well, nobody laughs at Trekkies dressed up as their favorite characters either, don't they? ;-) (oops, the Striffelbuur seems to have blown his cover)...

I guess you'd better be extremely unattractive, for once the word gets out, you'll have to start e-mailing your pictures to a LOT of people ;-)

Striffelbuur.
(who's always keen on seeing people dress up as Lara, and wouldn't mind you sending your pix to striffelbuur@usa.net).