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Author
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Topic: WADS, TGA'S AND LEVELS, OH MY
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-12-2001 11:52 PM
   
i have a few detailed questions about wads tga's and levels in general. i have downloaded new wads from various sites and no texture files yet but will do soon. how can i take as many wads as i want from different TR levels and as many tga's as i want and put them ALL together in ONE project. i am making a project but i want to be able to pick any object or animation and any texture from all my tgas and use it in my level. is this possible and if it is what program allows you to do this.---- ok..and like if i open up my current project how do i load differnet wads and textures to use in it or just add as many wads and textures to the ones on my editor screen? can anyone clear this up for me b/c i seem to be confused. i would appreciate it.------------------
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DMA69
Junior Member Posts: 17
From:San Diego CA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 09-12-2001 11:55 PM
-[This message has been edited by Wee Bald Man (edited 09-13-2001).] IP: Logged |
usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 12:03 AM
thats what i am wanting to know. i am wanting to make this level that comes from 2 different levels and i want to be able to pick and choose any and/or all textures and wads/objects to achieve this. anyone have any idea?? thanks. ------------------
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 12:05 AM
oh yeah and i have TRWEST..but unsure on how to use it fully..i couldnt get it to copy everything over, it just wouldnt do it------------------
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Michael P
Member Posts: 227
From:
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 12:15 AM
If I understand you right, what you want is not possible. The TR Editor has a few severe limitations, like maximum number of objects and triggers you can use in a level, texture memory etc etc. even down to a maximum number of active flares in a level or ropes in a room. Still, if you are targeting a big project you can build more but smaller levels and as you can create one WAD (with TR West) and use one specific texture TGA per Level, this still gives you basically all the variety you could want. It does of course require a bit of advance planning, but that is recommended in any case when building a level (or even a whole project).Hope this clarifies a little.
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HAPPY RAIDING!
Michael.  IP: Logged |
usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 12:45 AM
ok well...you answeted my question somewhat. i know that TRwest does allow you to import new objects into a project..but how do you do that? i cant seem to get it to work. heres an example of what i want to do. this is just an example. like if i want part of my level to be snow, and part of it to be an egyptian theme...cant i just put all the textures and objects needed for that in my project?? or what if i wanted my level to have a mixture of 3 or 4 levels?? then can i do the same as i explain before...import all the objects i will need, and tga's for this.? i thought that was the whole point of TRWEST. can u help or do u understand more now what i was saying?------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 01:37 AM
You can bring in objects from as many wads as you want. But there are limitations built into TR.1) There are certain "slots" you can put an object into. These slots are predefined and hard-coded into the game engine. 2) The slot itself determines how an object will act, so you have to put an object into the right type of slot. 3) The textures used on objects adds up pretty quickly. The game engine has a limit on how much memory can be used for textures. If you put too many objects in a wad, you blow the limit. 4) Some objects are dependent on other objects. So if you take one object from a wad, you may be forced to take others. 5) Objects that move use animations. Animations are sometimes dependent on each other. Also, I think there is a limit to the memory for holding animation data. To take objects from several wads and build a new custom wad, this is what I did. 1) First load a reference wad. This is the wad you want to take objects from. 2) Find the object you want, select it, and add it to your custom wad. You can also place it into a different "slot", but make sure it is compatible. 3) Repeat step 2 for all the objects you want in your custom wad. You can load more than one reference wad, and take objects from any of them. When you output your custom wad, if there are any dependencies on other objects, TRWest will tell you. Then you have to add those objects to your custom wad. I think there is a problem with some wads not having all the Lara animations. I think you need to take Lara from the tut1 wad. Hope this helps.
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Wee Bald Man
Moderator Posts: 354
From:Left Luggage Locker #8, Heathrow Airport, London
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 05:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by usmsci:
i have a few detailed questions about wads tga's and levels in general. i have downloaded new wads from various sites and no texture files yet but will do soon. how can i take as many wads as i want from different TR levels and as many tga's as i want and put them ALL together in ONE project. i am making a project but i want to be able to pick any object or animation and any texture from all my tgas and use it in my level. is this possible and if it is what program allows you to do this.---- ok..and like if i open up my current project how do i load differnet wads and textures to use in it or just add as many wads and textures to the ones on my editor screen? can anyone clear this up for me b/c i seem to be confused. i would appreciate it.
Hi usmsci, I don't know whether it was an accident but please don't post questions related to the Level Editor in the TR Series forum. Thanks, WBM IP: Logged |
usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 11:09 AM
yes it was an accident  sorry------------------
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 11:16 AM
thanks attrk...umm i think i understand better now..but can you tell me where i load my custom wad, howdo i start my own custom wad? do you open your reference wad in TRWEST?? and how do you know which "slot" to put your new object in? umm do you how many textures per object you can use?
~~the manual says 245 objects per level so is this my limit for real? or does it depend on how many objects i have in my level? thanks for being patient, i just wanted to make sure when you were talking about moving objects into new slots that you were to do that in TRwest.
thanks.......IP: Logged |
usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 11:19 AM
does the manual refer to these SLOTS ever? if so i havent gotten quite that far..thanks ------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 12:39 PM
The slots are what I call them. When you have a wad loaded in the LE, it shows the names of the different objects in the wad. Each named object is a slot. Like LARA. That name identifies a slot. Whatever object you put into LARAs slot, the game will try to make it act like LARA. If the object can't act that way, strange things happen, even crashes.Loading a reference wad in TRWest I believe is on the File->Open Wad for Editing. The objects in that wad are put in the left window. The objects listed in the right window are your custom wad. The right window shows ALL slots defined in TR. Pick an object in the left window, then click Add. It goes in the same slot in your custom wad. If you want to move it to a different slot (like moving DEBRIS1 in the reference wad to DEBRIS2 in your custom wad), click Replace, and TRWest asks where you want to put it.
If you put something in your wad and don't want it anymore, click Delete. Where you put it in the wad (what "slot") depends on what it is. For simple things like rocks, pillars, or things that just sit there, you have alot to choose from. PLANT, FURNITURE, ROCK, ARCHITECTURE, DEBRIS.
For baddies, you have to pick a baddy about the same size, with the same animations you want.
If you take objects from more than one wad, you can sometimes get objects in the same slot, so you have to move one. Sometimes you can just move it to a different numberd slot of the same type, for example PLANT1 moved to PLANT2. The 245 objects in your map includes anything from your wad. Not how many things are in your wad, but how many of them you put into your level.
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 12:45 PM
ok so if i wanted i can put 500 objects in my wad if i wanted to and then pick from all of them up to 245 in my level..........right??? so what do the little arrows or marks by an object mean on the right hand side of the TRWEST. thanks for your help i appreciateit so much.------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 01:08 PM
Sorry, I made a mistake.To load a reference wad, that you can take things from, use File->Load Reference File. That will list the objects in the LEFT window. File->Open Wad for Editing is for when you have built a wad, but want to change it. This loads a wad into the RIGHT window for editing. The checks next to objects in the RIGHT window mean that object is in the wad, or that it will be once you output the wad. If you are building a wad from scratch, once you have picked all the objects you want from all the different wads, use Script->Save Script and TRWest will remember all the objects you picked and which wad you took them from. It is saved in a script file. If you change the wad later, you can load the script file, and everything will look like it was before.
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 01:25 PM
ok but was i right about the last post ? i can load as many choices of textures and objects i want in my project but can i only use up to 245 objects and a certain # of textures which is undefined , but i do know i have 20GB hard drive not even half used. so maybe ill be ok. ?? ------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 03:42 PM
The issue is NOT disk space. All of this has to be loaded into MEMORY. Textures and object meshes also have to be loaded to the video card. Those are the real limitations.
And don't forget, to play your level, people have to download all this.You can only load ONE TGA file in your project. It is limited to 256 tiles, PERIOD. I'm not sure about the wad objects. I don't know if ALL the objects in the wad are put into your TR4, or only the ones you put in the level.
Put as many objects as you want in your wad (absolute max is 526). Make your level. Then, any objects you did not put in your level, delete them from the wad and rebuild your level. Smaller downloads are better, not everyone will download a 20MB level over a dialup connection.
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 04:27 PM
well what i was figuring on doing was to that get together a lot of textures or tiles..as you said and whatever i didnt use i will delete from my wad. also....is there a way(to save space) that i can get some textures in a wad, add them to my level, then delete the "tiles" so i can import some more textures , some new ones and then use them in my level. ......ok if i am only allowed on TGA file is that where the TRWEST comes in...putting different textures from different TR games and levels into my own tga file and using that? im still a little lost. thanks for being patient. the reason i am asking all these very detailed questions is b/c i have my level on paper and my ideas and depending on what i can do will depend which route i will go in accordance with the limitations that are out there. thanks ------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 05:44 PM
You should be able to use almost any paint program (except MSPaint) to work with the textures. Just cut the ones you want from several TGA and paste them into a new TGA.
The only textures in a wad are the ones used for the objects. They won't do alot of good as tiles.
TRWest does not work with textures except to copy the textures for the objects you select.If you haven't built a level yet, I suggest you do one using existing TGA files and wads. The experience will be very useful. It doesn't even have to be a complete playable level, just get some experience first. Some of these questions will answer themselves, and you will understand how the TGA and WAD fit into things.
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 08:44 PM
ok here goes. i have the following programs downloaded and installed: 3-D canvas, stripx3, textureedit and TrWEST. is this enough to do anything and everything i want to do in a level that is possible as of now once i learn how to manipulate textures, wads, objects and tools through these programs?? the only other thing i can think of now is that i NEEEEEEED a program that will put ALL the correct files where they need to be when i download and extract a custom file...can anyone think of anything else and does anyone know of a such program that can do what i just described? thanks.------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-13-2001 11:16 PM
Those programs should do everything you want. Unless you want stuff from TR1, TR2, TR3, or TR5. Maybe I shouldn't mention that.Anyway, the manual has some good diagrams showing where the different files go, and which TR programs use them. Look on pages 78-79. It would be pretty easy to write a batch file to do it.
The worst part is when someone zips it up and includes directory names. I like to unzip the files and move them around myself.
I tend to ignore load screens and sometimes sounds. The script and english files are usually only needed if you want to see the new level names, or if there is more than one connected level.
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usmsci
Member Posts: 92
From:Hattiesburg, Ms, USA
Registered: May 2001
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posted 09-14-2001 12:06 PM
so all these programs would not help with objects and tools and tga's in the previous Tomb raider games?? i thought that was the whole point of getting them so you could do this....ok someone needs to clarify plz.  if this isnt going to help me get stuff from the other Tr's and use them then what else do i need. ive got the HD space., ill download whatever i need to. got 50GB left. tee hee------------------
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aktrekker
Member Posts: 454
From:WA, USA
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 09-14-2001 12:37 PM
I think there is a program that will let you get objects from previous TR games, if you own the game. TR2Wad or something like that. But animated objects don't always work the same, and enemy AI doesn't work at all.
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